Reminds me of an estate sale I went to one time. Unassuming place, one of those tiny postwar homes about the same size as the one in this article - but with at least double or triple the density of this train layout in the basement. The owner must have been a very thin person, as the narrow winding paths around the basement in places measured no more than 8 inches, and the widest parts were only about 2 foot wide. In a 900 sq. foot basement, there was probably only about 50 sq foot of floor you could actually rest your feet on. The rest was all layout and boxes of trains and train accessories of all sorts - hundreds of tiny pots of specialty paint, miniature trees, "grass powder", special linkages and wheels, and more. Probably most of it got thrown away at the end of the sale.
People have hobbies, but I can't think of any circumstance in which I'd convert my basement into a deathtrap. There was less room than those hoarder houses you see on TV (but much more organized). It was genuinely concerning that they even decided to hold a sale there open to the public.
Truly one of the more bizarre things I've seen. Also, the upstairs? Mostly normal - you wouldn't even know the guy liked trains.
Tangentially related, re hoarders and death traps, have you come across the story of the Collyer brothers?
Homer Lusk Collyer (November 6, 1881 – March 21, 1947) and Langley Wakeman Collyer (October 3, 1885 – c. March 9, 1947), known as the Collyer brothers,[1] were two American brothers who became infamous for their bizarre natures and compulsive hoarding. The two lived in seclusion in their Harlem brownstone at 2078 Fifth Avenue (at the corner of 128th Street) in New York City where they obsessively collected books, furniture, musical instruments, and myriad other items, with booby traps set up in corridors and doorways to crush intruders. Both died in their home in March 1947 and were found (Homer on March 21, Langley on April 8) surrounded by more than 140 tons (127,000 kg) of collected items that they had amassed over several decades.
…
The responding officer initially had a difficult time getting into the house. There was no doorbell or telephone and the doors were locked; and though the basement windows were broken, they were protected by iron grillwork.[20] An emergency squad of seven men eventually had no choice but to begin pulling out all of the junk that was blocking their way and throw it out onto the street below. The brownstone's foyer was packed solid by a wall of old newspapers, folding beds and chairs, half a sewing machine, boxes, parts of a wine press, and numerous other pieces of junk. A patrolman finally broke in through a window into a second-story bedroom. Behind this window lay, among other things, more packages and newspaper bundles, empty cardboard boxes lashed together with rope, the frame of a baby carriage, a rake, and old umbrellas tied together. After five hours of digging, Homer Collyer's body was found in an alcove surrounded by filled boxes and newspapers that were piled to the ceiling.
Langley Collyer (born October 3, 1885 - died c. March 9, 1947):
Langley died first. He was crushed by one of his own booby traps - a makeshift tunnel of newspapers and debris - while attempting to bring food to his paralyzed brother Homer. Langley was buried under a massive pile of junk and his body was not discovered until April 8, 1947, weeks after his death, due to the concealment caused by the debris.
Homer Collyer (born November 6, 1881 - died March 21, 1947):
Homer, who was blind and crippled, died alone of starvation and dehydration sometime after Langley’s death. Without his brother to care for him, he perished in the same house. His body was found seated in a decaying chair amidst the filth and clutter.
Is there anything particularly "neuro divergent" about having a hobby?
Anyways, I doubt his wife's making him do anything. Totally normal domestic arrangement to have a space for one's thing(s), whatever it may be. Well-conducive to a happy marriage, IMHO.
I'm not fortunate enough to have a whole basement to play with, but my study's piled high with my books, electronics, painting gear, art and models. I'm thankful to have a space that's mine. My SO didn't tell me to keep my shit here, I was like "dibs" on moving in.
> Is there anything particularly "neuro divergent" about having a hobby?
No, but how obsessive the pursuit of that hobby is, that's the question.
There are some model train enthusiasts that, over their life time, spend several millions of EUR on their hobby, so they basically work to finance their hobby.
Could be working to barely scrape by, going to bed early to save on heating costs, unable to afford to save a deposit to buy a house, worry how you’ll afford the next dentist or mechanics bill.
This is in Melbourne, where most homes are sold via auction (because of the limited supply)... lots of people are forgoing building inspections because of it. Wouldnt be surprised if he didnt do one.
Inspector wound't have had any reason to mention it. They care about structural issues.
The foundation is still clearly visible, they could do their job despite the railway. And they wouldn't have known that others didn't know it was there.
Home inspectors (at least in Australia) are next to useless and expensive. The one I bought a report from never looked under the house or in the attic.
How? It was accessible through a door. Nobody - not the seller, agent, himself or any other prospective buyers, or the building inspector he presumably engaged to check the place over before signing contracts - thought to look behind the door?
How can you buy a house without checking out the foundations/basement yourself or by a pro?
All the home inspectors I looked at (Victoria, where this house is, plus Tasmania) were all quite clear that they would only access areas they could find a way in. Closed up areas, wouldn't be inspected by default.
Incidentally, I'm in Victoria myself. When I bought my house, the inspector did the works. Multiple roof spaces, got under the house and had a look, full report with photos, phone call consultation to explain everything he saw to me. He even notified the sellers of an urgent issue and they had it fixed that afternoon.
I guess it depends who you hire (and whether or not you want to know about any issues, which is the most compelling reason I've seen in the replies so far for why this was "missed").
In fact things like attic hatches are supposed to be sealed ane so even though seen the inspector is not allowed in the attic. (Unless there is other evedence of a problem, though they need to repair the seal in that case.
It's that something regional for specific access type? My Victorian houses always had the roof hatch accessible - it's just another storage area and needs to be available if you want to rewire something.
Nonsense. Every house built in Victoria has an accessible hatch to the roof space. The hatches are not sealed either, it's just a lid resting over the opening, which can be pushed upward. Some have hinges, etc.
Not uncommon for Australia. The housing market is very competitive so being a nuisance as a buyer, such as hiring someone for a thorough inspection, could hurt your chances.
What inspectors actually do also depends on who is engaging them and how much they get paid. For example, in the ACT it's mandatory for sellers to have an inspection done. This will generally go to the lowest bidder and they will put in minimum effort, e.g. the report will have things like "Roof inspected as far as can see from ladder placed against the house" and "furniture present, unable to inspect area". If you were the buyer and engaging an inspector, and the seller cooperated, you could have them inspect as much as you were willing to pay them for.
The Melbourne real-estate market is _mad_. Prices (relative to wages) are exceptionally high and continue to rise, spending half your take-home income on housing isn't super uncommon.
Widespread sentiment that if you don't buy something ASAP, you'll never be able to - meaning lots of buyers skimping on due diligence to close a sale.
Whatever the inspector finds, whether it be $50k or $100k or $200k worth of repairs that you request as a price deduction, there’ll be someone else who won’t care about the inspection issues. It’s in your best interest to make the sellers life easier and execute the fastest sale.
Only to the extent that your best interest includes buying the house. But if the house needs tens of thousands (or more!) in repairs, then very likely buying the house is not in your best interest. That's kinda the point of an inspection.
Most old houses in Aus are just assumed to be complete shit so why waste money on an inspection to tell you what you already know. All the value is in the land.
If the house collapses that's a good thing because then the heritage protections are gone and you can build something better. The property value probably goes up if the old workers hut falls over.
The article says much of the house is raised, sitting above a carport. It sounds like this may be the space between the house and carport, so someone checking out the foundations would be looking for the foundation under the carport.
Many "inspectors" don't even go inside anymore. In some areas, where it is know that the buyers has every intention of replacing/rebuilding most houses, I've even heard of "inspections" done without a visit. They check on google that the house plan matches city records, that services are provided to the lot, and that there are no buried oil tanks and such, but don't bother going to view the house in person.
I guess the seller didn't want complications and the agent just lists what they're told about, wouldn't check for anything unexpected. Surveyors are commonly disappointingly trusting of handwaving and the buyer didn't have the experience to think to check.
A whimsical tale of dishonesty, laziness and incompetence. Merry fucking Christmas
A relative who is a manager sort in the medical software field told me yesterday about hiring hundreds of medical coders straight out of college. Apparently that doesn't mean software developers, but people who have swallowed a large catalogue mapping medical products and many-digit codes.
Side note, but if you're trying to sell off this stuff, you better do it soon. Train nuts like this are a dying breed. Probably will all be mostly worthless in a couple decades, along with commemorative plates, or the "good china" your parents never use.
Market is hot(ish) now though, or was a few years ago. A friends dad died and he had trains. We helped ebay all of it. Owned a toy store or something, lots of rare stuff (like window displays). We even had a guy buy one of the rare posters, return it for questionable reasons, and then start selling counterfeits. Even so, the grand total wasn't a ton of money, more within the "worth doing" category.
To me it seems there are more hobbyists than ever. It's finally "cool" to play DnD, Covid gave hobbies a big boost and people yearn to do something away from screens.
You can't comment like this on Hacker News, no matter what it's about, but especially something as benign as model trains. This kind of commenting is not what HN is for and destroys what it is for.
Please read the guidelines and make an effort to observe them in future.
Reminds me of an estate sale I went to one time. Unassuming place, one of those tiny postwar homes about the same size as the one in this article - but with at least double or triple the density of this train layout in the basement. The owner must have been a very thin person, as the narrow winding paths around the basement in places measured no more than 8 inches, and the widest parts were only about 2 foot wide. In a 900 sq. foot basement, there was probably only about 50 sq foot of floor you could actually rest your feet on. The rest was all layout and boxes of trains and train accessories of all sorts - hundreds of tiny pots of specialty paint, miniature trees, "grass powder", special linkages and wheels, and more. Probably most of it got thrown away at the end of the sale.
People have hobbies, but I can't think of any circumstance in which I'd convert my basement into a deathtrap. There was less room than those hoarder houses you see on TV (but much more organized). It was genuinely concerning that they even decided to hold a sale there open to the public.
Truly one of the more bizarre things I've seen. Also, the upstairs? Mostly normal - you wouldn't even know the guy liked trains.
Tangentially related, re hoarders and death traps, have you come across the story of the Collyer brothers?
Homer Lusk Collyer (November 6, 1881 – March 21, 1947) and Langley Wakeman Collyer (October 3, 1885 – c. March 9, 1947), known as the Collyer brothers,[1] were two American brothers who became infamous for their bizarre natures and compulsive hoarding. The two lived in seclusion in their Harlem brownstone at 2078 Fifth Avenue (at the corner of 128th Street) in New York City where they obsessively collected books, furniture, musical instruments, and myriad other items, with booby traps set up in corridors and doorways to crush intruders. Both died in their home in March 1947 and were found (Homer on March 21, Langley on April 8) surrounded by more than 140 tons (127,000 kg) of collected items that they had amassed over several decades.
…
The responding officer initially had a difficult time getting into the house. There was no doorbell or telephone and the doors were locked; and though the basement windows were broken, they were protected by iron grillwork.[20] An emergency squad of seven men eventually had no choice but to begin pulling out all of the junk that was blocking their way and throw it out onto the street below. The brownstone's foyer was packed solid by a wall of old newspapers, folding beds and chairs, half a sewing machine, boxes, parts of a wine press, and numerous other pieces of junk. A patrolman finally broke in through a window into a second-story bedroom. Behind this window lay, among other things, more packages and newspaper bundles, empty cardboard boxes lashed together with rope, the frame of a baby carriage, a rake, and old umbrellas tied together. After five hours of digging, Homer Collyer's body was found in an alcove surrounded by filled boxes and newspapers that were piled to the ceiling.
Cause of Death:
Langley Collyer (born October 3, 1885 - died c. March 9, 1947): Langley died first. He was crushed by one of his own booby traps - a makeshift tunnel of newspapers and debris - while attempting to bring food to his paralyzed brother Homer. Langley was buried under a massive pile of junk and his body was not discovered until April 8, 1947, weeks after his death, due to the concealment caused by the debris.
Homer Collyer (born November 6, 1881 - died March 21, 1947): Homer, who was blind and crippled, died alone of starvation and dehydration sometime after Langley’s death. Without his brother to care for him, he perished in the same house. His body was found seated in a decaying chair amidst the filth and clutter.
Now I see the real value of games like Factorio. That kind of poison needs to go somewhere or it ends up in real life projects
Sounds like he was neuro divergent and his wife made him keep his obsession in the basement.
Is there anything particularly "neuro divergent" about having a hobby?
Anyways, I doubt his wife's making him do anything. Totally normal domestic arrangement to have a space for one's thing(s), whatever it may be. Well-conducive to a happy marriage, IMHO.
I'm not fortunate enough to have a whole basement to play with, but my study's piled high with my books, electronics, painting gear, art and models. I'm thankful to have a space that's mine. My SO didn't tell me to keep my shit here, I was like "dibs" on moving in.
> Is there anything particularly "neuro divergent" about having a hobby?
Hyperfocus can make one take hobbies to fairly extreme levels.
Indeed. And such hobbies are a healthy and productive outlet for this kind of energy
> Is there anything particularly "neuro divergent" about having a hobby?
No, but how obsessive the pursuit of that hobby is, that's the question.
There are some model train enthusiasts that, over their life time, spend several millions of EUR on their hobby, so they basically work to finance their hobby.
Could be worse.
Could be working to barely scrape by, going to bed early to save on heating costs, unable to afford to save a deposit to buy a house, worry how you’ll afford the next dentist or mechanics bill.
Being able to afford a hobby is a luxury.
Welcome to Australia.
I don't know why you're singling out model train enthusiasts. This describes many people I know, and an extremely large range of hobbies.
>Sounds like he was neuro divergent and his wife made him keep his obsession in the basement.
God forbid men have hobbies.
This is fantastic. But wow, the home inspector was really phoning it in that day!
This is in Melbourne, where most homes are sold via auction (because of the limited supply)... lots of people are forgoing building inspections because of it. Wouldnt be surprised if he didnt do one.
Inspector wound't have had any reason to mention it. They care about structural issues.
The foundation is still clearly visible, they could do their job despite the railway. And they wouldn't have known that others didn't know it was there.
Ours did up a full report with pictures. I also walked through with the guy. Seems like something they would mention, even offhand.
It would not be unreasonable for an inspector to assume something like the train layout was mentioned in the listing or otherwise known to the buyer.
I don’t think a surveyor would be bothered about home contents
It's an omission so huge you could drive a train through it.
This was also my train of thought.
Assuming HO scale.
Our inspector missed obvious asbestos in the basement — I would have preferred the model trains!
Good news, everyone! It'll be all legal again soon:
https://www.ishn.com/articles/114790-trump-administration-to...
That’s not what the article you linked says.
Unbelievable lol.
The finger curls. You get model trains carrying carloads of asbestos.
Our home inspector missed the front door failing to latch!
Home inspectors (at least in Australia) are next to useless and expensive. The one I bought a report from never looked under the house or in the attic.
Why don’t get sued into usefulness when issues inevitably arise in properties they’ve inspected?
When you pay an expert and rely on their opinion, you have recourse
How? It was accessible through a door. Nobody - not the seller, agent, himself or any other prospective buyers, or the building inspector he presumably engaged to check the place over before signing contracts - thought to look behind the door?
How can you buy a house without checking out the foundations/basement yourself or by a pro?
All the home inspectors I looked at (Victoria, where this house is, plus Tasmania) were all quite clear that they would only access areas they could find a way in. Closed up areas, wouldn't be inspected by default.
Incidentally, I'm in Victoria myself. When I bought my house, the inspector did the works. Multiple roof spaces, got under the house and had a look, full report with photos, phone call consultation to explain everything he saw to me. He even notified the sellers of an urgent issue and they had it fixed that afternoon.
I guess it depends who you hire (and whether or not you want to know about any issues, which is the most compelling reason I've seen in the replies so far for why this was "missed").
In fact things like attic hatches are supposed to be sealed ane so even though seen the inspector is not allowed in the attic. (Unless there is other evedence of a problem, though they need to repair the seal in that case.
It's that something regional for specific access type? My Victorian houses always had the roof hatch accessible - it's just another storage area and needs to be available if you want to rewire something.
It is fairly new, strarted inithe late 1990s. It doesn't apply to old houses.
No, a completely new house. No access is sealed/blocked in any way.
Why is that? That seems odd.
Nonsense. Every house built in Victoria has an accessible hatch to the roof space. The hatches are not sealed either, it's just a lid resting over the opening, which can be pushed upward. Some have hinges, etc.
My house is in Victoria and I can confirm there is no roof hatch. Its a 3 story house. No access or crawl space between the floors either.
Skillion roof? Probably doesn’t have a roof space.
Not uncommon for Australia. The housing market is very competitive so being a nuisance as a buyer, such as hiring someone for a thorough inspection, could hurt your chances.
What inspectors actually do also depends on who is engaging them and how much they get paid. For example, in the ACT it's mandatory for sellers to have an inspection done. This will generally go to the lowest bidder and they will put in minimum effort, e.g. the report will have things like "Roof inspected as far as can see from ladder placed against the house" and "furniture present, unable to inspect area". If you were the buyer and engaging an inspector, and the seller cooperated, you could have them inspect as much as you were willing to pay them for.
The Melbourne real-estate market is _mad_. Prices (relative to wages) are exceptionally high and continue to rise, spending half your take-home income on housing isn't super uncommon.
Widespread sentiment that if you don't buy something ASAP, you'll never be able to - meaning lots of buyers skimping on due diligence to close a sale.
It's really a shame too. If the realtor found that prime basement living space beforehand they could've tripled the sale price!!
(A joke but also not really because housing prices here in Australia are absolutely insane)
Whatever the inspector finds, whether it be $50k or $100k or $200k worth of repairs that you request as a price deduction, there’ll be someone else who won’t care about the inspection issues. It’s in your best interest to make the sellers life easier and execute the fastest sale.
Only to the extent that your best interest includes buying the house. But if the house needs tens of thousands (or more!) in repairs, then very likely buying the house is not in your best interest. That's kinda the point of an inspection.
Most old houses in Aus are just assumed to be complete shit so why waste money on an inspection to tell you what you already know. All the value is in the land.
If the house collapses that's a good thing because then the heritage protections are gone and you can build something better. The property value probably goes up if the old workers hut falls over.
The article says much of the house is raised, sitting above a carport. It sounds like this may be the space between the house and carport, so someone checking out the foundations would be looking for the foundation under the carport.
Many "inspectors" don't even go inside anymore. In some areas, where it is know that the buyers has every intention of replacing/rebuilding most houses, I've even heard of "inspections" done without a visit. They check on google that the house plan matches city records, that services are provided to the lot, and that there are no buried oil tanks and such, but don't bother going to view the house in person.
I guess the seller didn't want complications and the agent just lists what they're told about, wouldn't check for anything unexpected. Surveyors are commonly disappointingly trusting of handwaving and the buyer didn't have the experience to think to check.
A whimsical tale of dishonesty, laziness and incompetence. Merry fucking Christmas
model train network?! a network to train your large language model?
Better scrupulously check keywords when hiring engineers to work on this.
"bringing it up to code" might also be as ambiguous as "engineer"
A relative who is a manager sort in the medical software field told me yesterday about hiring hundreds of medical coders straight out of college. Apparently that doesn't mean software developers, but people who have swallowed a large catalogue mapping medical products and many-digit codes.
"Done, it's all up to code, your house has been migrated to the cloud".
Were there any Klein bottles?
Philip K. Dick's "Small Town" is found!
> His love of rail started when he was young, through a Japanese cartoon about a crime-fighting train.
I think this is Brave Express Might Gaine…?
There’s never a train when you want one, but when you don’t they’re everywhere!
Serendipity.
This guy is so lucky. We all have to build our own. What a head start.
“Honey, look at this massive model train network that just happened to be in our basement!”
No mention of the stacks of niche magazines though
Exactly! This basement could be an antique roadshow’s dream
Side note, but if you're trying to sell off this stuff, you better do it soon. Train nuts like this are a dying breed. Probably will all be mostly worthless in a couple decades, along with commemorative plates, or the "good china" your parents never use.
Market is hot(ish) now though, or was a few years ago. A friends dad died and he had trains. We helped ebay all of it. Owned a toy store or something, lots of rare stuff (like window displays). We even had a guy buy one of the rare posters, return it for questionable reasons, and then start selling counterfeits. Even so, the grand total wasn't a ton of money, more within the "worth doing" category.
> Train nuts like this are a dying breed.
Why?
To me it seems there are more hobbyists than ever. It's finally "cool" to play DnD, Covid gave hobbies a big boost and people yearn to do something away from screens.
Hahaha exactly what I thought!
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You can't comment like this on Hacker News, no matter what it's about, but especially something as benign as model trains. This kind of commenting is not what HN is for and destroys what it is for.
Please read the guidelines and make an effort to observe them in future.
https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
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